Comments on: Ships and Saints and All the Company of Heaven http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/ Orthodox Christianity, Culture and Religion, Making the Journey of Faith Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:37:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: fatherstephen http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4739 fatherstephen Fri, 18 May 2007 01:57:39 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4739 Indeed, it does vary according to the seriousness of the apostasy, and the economia of the Bishop. Indeed, it does vary according to the seriousness of the apostasy, and the economia of the Bishop.

]]> By: handmaidmaryleah http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4726 handmaidmaryleah Thu, 17 May 2007 23:30:32 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4726 See now that is interesting because I receved a different answer from my parish priest after church this morning and I remember this answer from another priest I had spoke with onece before... If someone leaves the Orthodox Church for another faith they are re-Chrismated, now I would assume some economia is applied here, did they fall into serious error and become non-Christians or just wander away. That is where the mercy and discretion of the Bishop comes in, correct? That said, we sure do hurt when fellow Orthodox go astray, not just in embarrassment or pain at what they may do, but we ache that our brothers and sisters fall away, it is our loss too, as if something has been cut away from the Body of Christ. Christ is in our midst! the handmaid, Mary-Leah See now that is interesting because I receved a different answer from my parish priest after church this morning and I remember this answer from another priest I had spoke with onece before… If someone leaves the Orthodox Church for another faith they are re-Chrismated, now I would assume some economia is applied here, did they fall into serious error and become non-Christians or just wander away. That is where the mercy and discretion of the Bishop comes in, correct?
That said, we sure do hurt when fellow Orthodox go astray, not just in embarrassment or pain at what they may do, but we ache that our brothers and sisters fall away, it is our loss too, as if something has been cut away from the Body of Christ.
Christ is in our midst!
the handmaid,
Mary-Leah

]]> By: fatherstephen http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4671 fatherstephen Thu, 17 May 2007 01:37:31 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4671 God does not take back the gifts He gives. Stalin was an Orthodox Christian, though it would be appropriate to say he had become an apostate (i.e. he had fallen away from the faith). Canon law says that we should commune at least once a year - so it certainly would be possible to sort of drift away from the faith through neglect. But returning would not mean rebaptism or chrismation - but rather penance and confession. In very serious cases, probably a lenghty period of penance before absolution and communion were given. I have at least twice been involved in receiving people back into the Orthodox faith who had "wandered elsewhere," shall we say. God does not take back the gifts He gives. Stalin was an Orthodox Christian, though it would be appropriate to say he had become an apostate (i.e. he had fallen away from the faith). Canon law says that we should commune at least once a year - so it certainly would be possible to sort of drift away from the faith through neglect. But returning would not mean rebaptism or chrismation - but rather penance and confession. In very serious cases, probably a lenghty period of penance before absolution and communion were given. I have at least twice been involved in receiving people back into the Orthodox faith who had “wandered elsewhere,” shall we say.

]]> By: Michael Bauman http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4660 Michael Bauman Wed, 16 May 2007 23:20:26 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4660 handmaidmaryleah asks: "When do people cease to be Orthodox Christian? Fr. Stephen will correct me if I'm wrong, but in one sense, never all of us have the Seal of the Gift of the Holy Spirit and we will be held accountable. That does not mean we act as we are called to act, i.e. with humility, love, mercy, compassion and long suffering. In another sense, we will always be becoming Orthodox Christians. The Church is fully human which includes a great deal of sin, she is also fully divine which allows for the sin to be healed should we want it to be. Although I'm sure many will disagree, my son has an interesting take on the issue of war which is worth reading: http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles7/BaumanWarrior.php handmaidmaryleah asks: “When do people cease to be Orthodox Christian?

Fr. Stephen will correct me if I’m wrong, but in one sense, never all of us have the Seal of the Gift of the Holy Spirit and we will be held accountable. That does not mean we act as we are called to act, i.e. with humility, love, mercy, compassion and long suffering. In another sense, we will always be becoming Orthodox Christians. The Church is fully human which includes a great deal of sin, she is also fully divine which allows for the sin to be healed should we want it to be.

Although I’m sure many will disagree, my son has an interesting take on the issue of war which is worth reading: http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles7/BaumanWarrior.php

]]> By: handmaidmaryleah http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4656 handmaidmaryleah Wed, 16 May 2007 20:50:02 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4656 Forgive me I forgot to put this in front of my post: Michael writes: "The community of Orthodox bloggers on the internet–how do we incarnate that. I’m probably just rambling, but the sense of commonalty is one of the important features that drew me to the Church. Individualism is simply an illusion. We do nothing alone. Everything we do effects everyone else." M-L Forgive me I forgot to put this in front of my post:
Michael writes: “The community of Orthodox bloggers on the internet–how do we incarnate that. I’m probably just rambling, but the sense of commonalty is one of the important features that drew me to the Church. Individualism is simply an illusion. We do nothing alone. Everything we do effects everyone else.”
M-L

]]> By: handmaidmaryleah http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4655 handmaidmaryleah Wed, 16 May 2007 20:45:21 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4655 The interesting thing is that it hurts when Orthodox "go wrong" or are perceived to do wrong. In a way we are having this discussion on my blog, during war bad things happen, there was a war 10 -12 years ago in Serbia an Orthodox country and there are accusations of massacres, the pogroms in Russia, these are hard issues for those who want to believe that when we become Orthodox we all become irenic and cease to do horrible things. As if there are no criminals in Greece, even though that is an Orthodox country. This is an interesting realization especially for converts to Holy Orthodoxy in the beginning. When do people cease to be Orthodox Christian? Or do they, is that a false construct? Christ is Risen! the handmaid, Mary-Leah The interesting thing is that it hurts when Orthodox “go wrong” or are perceived to do wrong. In a way we are having this discussion on my blog, during war bad things happen, there was a war 10 -12 years ago in Serbia an Orthodox country and there are accusations of massacres, the pogroms in Russia, these are hard issues for those who want to believe that when we become Orthodox we all become irenic and cease to do horrible things.
As if there are no criminals in Greece, even though that is an Orthodox country.
This is an interesting realization especially for converts to Holy Orthodoxy in the beginning. When do people cease to be Orthodox Christian? Or do they, is that a false construct?
Christ is Risen!
the handmaid,
Mary-Leah

]]> By: fatherstephen http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4646 fatherstephen Wed, 16 May 2007 17:28:07 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4646 Alyssa, Isn't that just an incredible work of art? It is actually the Virgin in the Apse above the Sanctuary in St. Vladimir's Church in Kiev, Ukraine. Most of the frescoes there are the work of Vasnetsov, a late and early 20th century artist. His school of work, though more "Italian" than the classic Byzantine, nonetheless moves in the direction of the impressionists, but for my Western eyes, looks more or less like the "Pre-Raphaelite" work that was done in the 19th century or so in the West. Nesterov is another such Russian artist. The best site for viewing such work is Olga's Gallery.com (or something like that). It has an amazing collection of work (and dancing ads, etc.). click on the artist by letter (N) for Nesterov, etc. And then on the artist name and it will have one or two pages of their art. It's really incredible. I have to say I owe my accidental discovery of Vasnetsov to the Blog Kristensdottir, that is on my blogroll. She posted a couple of things from Vasnetsov and I was smitten by it. I encourage you to go look for it. Quite moving. Not classical in the proper iconographic model, but quite moving. Alyssa,

Isn’t that just an incredible work of art? It is actually the Virgin in the Apse above the Sanctuary in St. Vladimir’s Church in Kiev, Ukraine. Most of the frescoes there are the work of Vasnetsov, a late and early 20th century artist. His school of work, though more “Italian” than the classic Byzantine, nonetheless moves in the direction of the impressionists, but for my Western eyes, looks more or less like the “Pre-Raphaelite” work that was done in the 19th century or so in the West.

Nesterov is another such Russian artist.

The best site for viewing such work is Olga’s Gallery.com (or something like that). It has an amazing collection of work (and dancing ads, etc.). click on the artist by letter (N) for Nesterov, etc. And then on the artist name and it will have one or two pages of their art. It’s really incredible.

I have to say I owe my accidental discovery of Vasnetsov to the Blog Kristensdottir, that is on my blogroll. She posted a couple of things from Vasnetsov and I was smitten by it. I encourage you to go look for it. Quite moving. Not classical in the proper iconographic model, but quite moving.

]]> By: Margaret http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4645 Margaret Wed, 16 May 2007 17:19:19 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4645 Thank you, Fr. Stephen, for posting this. I have tried to thank as many members of our Antiochian Orthodox Church as I can, priests, deacons and lay people, for their faithfulness in attending to the worship and service of God. You see, we visited this church 18 years ago and it was beautiful! But we stayed within the Anglican communion and relocated home geographically several times. When we returned to our "home town" we were blessed by God that as we prayed for Him to show us how to worship Him, He reminded my husband of the Orthodox Church we had visited so many years ago. In 2005 on the Sunday of Pentecost I attended with my husband and I have never looked back. This precious body of worshippers had "hung in there" and God blesses their efforts. The kneeling vespers and the prayers upon prayers for everyone! The saints present! How wonderful to be able to bring our children here! May God bless you as you minister to your flock, and thank you for your service to Our Lord and His Church! And I thank God for, and pray His blessings on, all Orthodox Christians everywhere; and pray all Christians join in praising the One Holy God! Thank you, Fr. Stephen, for posting this. I have tried to thank as many members of our Antiochian Orthodox Church as I can, priests, deacons and lay people, for their faithfulness in attending to the worship and service of God. You see, we visited this church 18 years ago and it was beautiful! But we stayed within the Anglican communion and relocated home geographically several times. When we returned to our “home town” we were blessed by God that as we prayed for Him to show us how to worship Him, He reminded my husband of the Orthodox Church we had visited so many years ago. In 2005 on the Sunday of Pentecost I attended with my husband and I have never looked back. This precious body of worshippers had “hung in there” and God blesses their efforts. The kneeling vespers and the prayers upon prayers for everyone! The saints present! How wonderful to be able to bring our children here! May God bless you as you minister to your flock, and thank you for your service to Our Lord and His Church! And I thank God for, and pray His blessings on, all Orthodox Christians everywhere; and pray all Christians join in praising the One Holy God!

]]> By: Jfred http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4640 Jfred Wed, 16 May 2007 15:27:44 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4640 Hebrews 12:1 is a troublesome verse for protestants, as it was pointed out to me that it is written in the present tense: "Since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses......" This is another one of those verses that has prompted me to explore the OC. Thanks for this post. This subject is not often discussed. Hebrews 12:1 is a troublesome verse for protestants, as it was pointed out to me that it is written in the present tense: “Since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses……”

This is another one of those verses that has prompted me to explore the OC.

Thanks for this post. This subject is not often discussed.

]]> By: Coroebeus http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4637 Coroebeus Wed, 16 May 2007 14:41:20 +0000 http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/ships-and-saints-and-all-the-company-of-heaven/#comment-4637 "If there are things your heart aches for that are good things, then don’t quit aching, but pray through the ache." Thanks for this, Father. Words to live by. “If there are things your heart aches for that are good things, then don’t quit aching, but pray through the ache.”

Thanks for this, Father. Words to live by.

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